Broadcaster Nick Grimshaw and restaurateur Angela Hartnett's latest guest on their podcast Dish is musician/comedian Tim Minchin. Tim joins them for their weekly dinner party and discusses a wide range of topics including naked Tim, British BBQs and his musical Groundhog Day.

Dish from Waitrose & Partners, hosted by Nick Grimshaw and Angela Hartnett is available on all podcast providers now.

Read a few tasty quotes below:

THE GROUP ON TOAST AND TIM BEING NAKED

Nick: “I wanna talk to you about toast, because when Angela and I sat down to do Dish, we spoke about toast actually in our very first meeting. You’re a big, big fan of toast.”

Tim: “I like toast, yeah.”

Nick: “And Angela I wanted to know more about you and I was like, what's the best thing on toast? Cause I thought it’d say a lot about a person.”

Angela: “Very judgmental, aren't you?”

Nick: “No, I just was like, is she sweet, is she chef-y? Like what kind of person is she. And Angela's response was amazing ‘cause she said, everything's good on toast.”

Tim: “True. Yeah. Everything is good on toast.”

Nick: “She said it was a stupid question. Are you a daily toast indulger?”

Tim: “No, but the boring subtext to all conversations about food is I quite often have to be naked or semi-naked on screen, and so my life is about like going, when's the next time I have to be semi-naked on screen? I don't have to be, I just write stuff so I- It’s how I hold myself to account. It's an amazing thing about my career - pretty much everything I've ever done on telly from, you know, Australian historical drama Secret River which I am full frontal, and Californication where there's just so much of my bum, and both seasons of Upright, which I wrote so I have no excuse, where there's, you know… And there's just so much nudity. And I think part of why I end up doing that stuff is ‘cause it's the only way I can keep myself, like, I need a threat. It's like you said earlier, do you like being anxious, and doing- I love something holding me- to account, you know. But anyway, so I eat toast, depending on what's coming up. I'm not eating toast at the moment ‘cause I’ve got to shoot-”

Angela: “Cause he’s naked in two weeks.”

TIM ON AUSTRALIANS LOVING BBQS

Nick: “Is it a stereotype in Australia or is it true people do love to have a bloody barbecue?”

Tim: “Yeah well- except you guys for you barbecue is a- and the Americans a bit, it's a style of cooking. So you do it badly, you get some aluminium tray full of coal from a- I mean, it's the weirdest thing-”

Angela: “From a garage.”

Tim: “Burn a patch on the grass. It's so weird. You're sort of like trying to light it in between rain and it's just so sad. Many many people in Australia just have an outdoor kitchen basically, so if you are lucky enough to be able to build a house in Australia, will have a built-in outdoor barbecue area, which is all gas and plumbed and stuff. So it's actually just an outdoor stove, but it's a grill and yeah, it's, it's huge. Culturally huge. And it's not, ‘Put another shrimp on the-’ it's not, usually, prawns and stuff are usually Christmas, you have, you have seafood. But it's mostly the sausages and chops and steaks and you know, lamb chops, and you might do it twice a week. And usually it's traditionally, it's the dads, of course. That's changing now, but my dad, master, you know, he'll do a whole roast on the, on the barbecue with the hood, but- that's what he knows how to do. It's, it's very much used to-“ 

Angela: “See, is that your thing? You do it or you're breaking these traditions?”

Tim: “No, I do. Our kids were born here in London and then we lived in L.A .and stuff, so we returned to Australia five years ago and we're trying to sort of rebuild those traditions. Not, not the gender divide, but the, absolutely. We we're actually renovating our house now. We've got a bifold window where the kitchen bench will then extend out into the outside bench and so it's sort of indoor outdoor kitchen. Which- because, I moved back to Australia, you know, in my industry, moving back to Australia is not good for my business, but if you wanna do the lifestyle, you better get into it. And we near the beach and stuff.”

Nick: “It's funny, isn't it, that the outdoor cooking is seen as like the man's. Dad doesn't cook inside. My dad- never saw him ever, ever in his life, cook inside. But outside?”

Tim: “You need to be, you need to be hairy to cook outside in the weather.”

Nick: “Why? What is that about inside? Do you remember going to your first British barbecue? Or witnessing it?”

Tim: “I remember this sort of slight- cultural- we, we, the first place we lived was an upstairs flat and we adored our neighbours and we shared a little, you know, strip of mud that we call a back garden, like all the grass for our five days a year you can sit on, the rest of the time it's like just swamp. I do remember this sort of culture clash where they would sort of have this little dinky coal thing that they hadn't put together properly and it was rickety and they'd sort of try and light it, and we bought a what I think of a barbecue, which I understand to a Brit looks a bit American, it's like got a hood and fold-out tables and a gas bottle, and there was definitely a, a sense of mutual contempt. They were like, ‘Oh, how crass,’ you know. How crass to have a gas barbecue you can cook inside.’ And I was like, What the hell are you doing mate? Like, what are you gonna cook on that? You're gonna give me a raw sausage and we’re going to sit in the mud? Come on.”

TIM ON HIS ICONIC CHEESE SONG

Nick: “Dish is a food podcast. We could talk about your incredible cheese song. Eight minute long- -iconic anthem that you performed at Royal Albert Hall, no less. And I just love how stupid and silly, this whole thing is. It's so like, it is like kind of the biggest orchestra I've ever seen.”

Tim: “Yeah. Fifty-seven people playing a song, an eight-minute mini opera about cheese. Some of my work, you know I did get a bit of a reputation of being quite political or it having an edge, and I get the feeling everyone's waiting for the, the other foot to drop and sort of like, what's this actually, what's the metaphor? It's like, oh no, it's a song about cheese. It's just about my slight lactose intolerance.”

Nick: “Yeah. But there's, you know, there's, you go on a journey through it. It's complex, like the stomach, and it’s-”

Tim: “Well, it uses my love for cheese, it compares it to love that damages you. Which is what my love of cheese does.”

Nick: “You always forget, don't you? The love is always strong-”

Tim: “I don't forget, I just do it anyway. I mean it's like drinking too much alcohol. You love it while you're doing it and it's awful afterwards, and it's the same with cheese, I’m just rolling around in my bed. Groaning. Sort of wrapped in self-loathing.”

TIM ON GROUNDHOG DAY 

Nick: “So I hate not to talk about cheese, but you are here to talk about Groundhog Day. Back at the old Vic. And Angela, you're fresh from seeing it last night.”

Angela: “I saw it last night. It's fantastic. In the heat, oh my God. I mean, I did feel sorry for all those actors and actresses. And they had like ski gear on and all these padded jackets.”

Tim: “Yeah, because it was hot in London yesterday. And the air conditioning went down at the Old Vic. Which by the way, doesn't happen. And it won't happen again, but uh, but yeah, these guys are depicting tap dancing, snow suited winter in, you know, Punxsutawney.”

Angela: “You would not have known, they did an incredible performance.”

Tim: “It does make the audience a bit soporific though - that's not the right word, but yeah, sleepy. But did it make you your heart soar?”

Angela: “I loved it. He was an incredible performer, as was she. It was- and the audience loved it, even though we are all by the end of it, dripping in sweat. There were standing ovations and it was fabulous. Congratulations. Yeah. I mean, it's selling out, I mean, it was packed last night.”

Tim: “It's been a long journey. Cause it opened seven years ago and then went to Broadway and then we couldn't get it back into London for lots of reasons and then, you know, we lost our producer, beautiful André died very suddenly, and then Covid hit and it sort of felt like one of those things in life where you think, well maybe…”

Angela: “It's not meant to to be.”

Tim: “Maybe it's not meant to be it, but luckily we are not- we don't think like that, we just kept going back to how people responded the first time round and went, this can't go away. And so, bit of tenacity, but also it's the theme of Groundhog Day, you know, you keep trying and keep improving and it's actually a deeply complicated piece of musical theatre. Because it's a very complicated thing to try and pull off, a person trapped in a, in a repeated day, but it manages to resolve into just pure heart. I'm very proud of it in that way. It goes from a sort of intellectual exercise and a very dissonant thing into a very open-hearted, warm, sweaty thing.”

Nick: “If you were stuck in a day forever, is there a day that you ever look back on you think, that was one of the best days. Maybe a wedding? Maybe a great party? Is there a day where like, I'd, I'd give that a go, I'd relive in that.”

Tim: “Well, not to be too intellectually po-faced about it, but I mean, the, the- my whole life is, if there's something that drives me, it's variety, you know, it's why I've done all these different things. I find repetition difficult, or at least I find the curiosity of pushing out in a different direction very tempting. So the idea of repeating your good day is kind of- and, and this is what Groundhog Day says, eventually he figures out that, oh wow, why don't I just have the best day ever? And, and in his brain that's very exploitative, he like steals stuff and, you know, manipulates people into sex and he's like a terrible, terrible person. But he does have the best day ever, but he learns that it's awful, and actually you damage your good days by having them again. That's the lesson of life, isn't it? You- the fleetingness is why it's valuable. Yeah. The play does a- it works on a whole other level, which is really sort of suggests that life is like being trapped in a musical, and of course, those poor performers not only have to perform the same show, and it is so intricate that it's like your foot is in the right place at the right time. They have to do that eight shows a week, but within each show they have to do the same day. They're doing the same lines over and over again. Which sounds boring, but it's not, it's very clever. And Phil Connor says in, in one of the songs, he says, ‘There was a day with a girl, I remember it well. Her name was Janine or Jane-Anne or Joelle.’ But he describes his perfect day. ‘We drank Pina coladas, watched the sun setting over the bay. We made love in the sand, and then when we were through, we went back to her room and watched Ghostbusters 2, smoked half a joint and ate half a pound of pâté.’ And, and so, I wrote that lyric because that probably is the day. Sounds like a good day to me. Any day that ends with pâté. Although the memory of Joelle says, ‘It was way too much pâté.’”

Nick: “Is there a food, do you think that you could, apart from cheese, that you could just eat and eat forever?”

Tim: “No, for the same reason, because anything repeated is hell you know, but you know, a baguette and butter or a baguette and butter and pâté, I'm sorry to the vegetarians. Charcuterie. If my rest of my- if I had to choose one sort of meal, it would just be sort of cheese and charcuterie and a bottle of - well in the day white or in the, in the night red. ”

Nick: “Do go see Groundhog Day at the Old Vic, it is on until the middle of August.”

TIM MINCHIN ON ‘BOGANS’

Tim: “My bolognese involves quite a lot of red wine and reducing it over a long period of time and stuff. So it's not completely bogan, but it's pretty, pretty base.”

Angela: “What was that expression, bogan? What does that mean?”

Tim: “There's not really an equivalent. It's sort of like Australian white trash, but it doesn't, it's not that condescending and it's not like chav, but it's in that area. It's like, ‘Oi mate, just, just bloody rig pipe. Don't fix your loos, put a pipe in a bucket.’ You know, it's like just a bit, I don't dunno. It's a little bit like, it's the best, the best and the worst of us.”

Nick: “Like a bit basic.”

Tim: “Yeah, A bit like, Bogans in Australia, yeah, wear black jeans to the beach and get drunk and had, have a fight, you know?”

TIM ON FOOD WHILE GROWING UP

Nick: “Tim, let's talk about your relationship and your family with food when you were growing up, we heard you were in quite a regimented family with, with food and mealtime, that you had to sit in your seat, that was Tim's seat and it was locked in.”

Tim: “I've never thought of it as regimented, but I think when you've got four kids, there's, you know, and yes, it was- Organised and also sort of, quite middle class. Yeah, my dad's a surgeon. It was a very nice table in a very nice room and we'd eat there nearly every night. Six of us around a table and yeah, we all had our spots and we all had our jobs and. I've never thought it as regimented, I suppose that is right. It wasn't- I just don't want anyone to picture us sort of Von Trapps, like-”

Nick: “We were the same in our house though. We- it wasn't like you have to sit there, but you know, if you dared sit in your sibling's seat, they'd be like, that's my seat.”

Tim: “It just emerged I think. And also ‘cause I was a second son, my, my mum, I don't know what she was reading, Dr. Spock or something, but, she had ideas about- so dad was at that end of the table and I was at the other end, so by the time there were four of us, I was at the other head of the table. And I think that was mum going, oh, second child, he'll be, he'll grow up to be all insecure and stuff, so we've gotta… And look, it worked. I mean, I'm a mess of a man. You wouldn't know it because I have that head of the table vibe.”

Nick: “Because I remember always, family dinners, like my brother had just to get in trouble even though he was thirteen years older than me. So even as an adult man he'd be being told off by my mom ‘cause he ate too quickly. He’d just want it over with, you know, he'd just be like, ‘Don't know.’”

Angela: “Shovel.”

Nick: “What were you like?”

Tim: “One of my siblings- I was the slowest, by a long shot. One of my siblings ate really, really fast. But yeah, everyone would be waiting for me and it'd be, ‘Oh Tim.’ And I don't, I dunno why, it doesn't seem to add up to anything I've ended up being, although I, I don't think I eat particularly fast now. I sometimes I feel like I'm eating fast. Some people are like hoovers, it's just so weird. And you don't, they don't look like they're shovelling it in, they just- you blink and it's gone.”

Nick: “I’m really hoover-y, I'm really bad. Do you know- I'm so- I don't know what it was.”

Angela: “I'm a quick eater. I think mine's to do with work. Because you are standing on your feet- and you just quick, and eat something. Neil hoovers. But my cousins like you, Tim, he- we will, there'll probably be twenty of us around the table and he will be still halfway through when everyone else is finished, and we’re like…”

Tim: “Some people are really annoying. Just come on, eat.”

Angela: “Please, come on! And he'll literally- he's as thin as rake, and he will just go, leave that, I will just take my time, and he'll finish everything. And you know, he's quite good at that.”

TIM ON LIVING IN L.A.

Nick: “How did you find living in L.A.?”

Tim: “Oh, well, I mean, I am much more British than I am- in fact, despite the cute culture clash anecdotes, coming to England for me was a very-”

Angela: “Second home in a way.”

Tim: “- strange sense of like, this is my home. Like, in, in terms of my work, and I love working and living in Australia and my dear, dear friends there. But it was a really weird thing that sort of self-taught muso from West Australia and I found my- in Matthew and, and my collaborators over here, it's like I found my people here. I felt socially a bit like that as well. English men and that sort of self-deprecating gentleness suited me much better than like Aussie blokes and, you know. One thing's weird though is I- I've always got along really well with women and I have never thought that you can't have individual relationships with women, even if they've got partners. Definitely in Britain and in in America, it's- everyone's cool with it, but it's unusual that, that I'll ring up the, the woman and go, ‘Oh, so we get together, ‘and everyone's like, ‘No, you're meant to talk to the man.’ And like, I've found that really surprising in Britain, which is so advanced in so many ways culturally, and so, open, but definitely I- none of the other boys ever rang Sarah and I would ring all their wives. And say, ‘Let's have sex,’ and they’ll be, ‘Yeah.’