In her new series Parental Guidance comedian Katherine Ryan explores out of the box parenting ideas by meeting families across the UK who are living and breathing them. Along the journey we meet Katherine’s own family and discover why she thinks more parents should listen to their own instincts instead of following the crowd.
Katherine has a 14-year-old daughter, a 2-year-old and a 7- month-old baby and juggling their childcare and a busy work life as a stand-up comedian and TV host is becoming too much to manage. Worse – she knows how she WANTS to bring up her babies, and that’s by being there the whole time, and not outsourcing childcare, but that is impossible with her work schedule, if she still wants to be able to provide for her family.
Through the families she meets, she attempts to answer the problems she is facing at home. Throughout the whole series Katherine is also wrestling with the biggest problem of all – whether or not to have another baby. Which Bobby and her can’t seem to agree on
Parental Guidance starts Monday 5th February, 9pm on W (watch live or stream weekly on UKTV Play).
Q: Why did you decide to make a TV series about unconventional parenting?
A: It’s daunting when people ask me what my hobbies are – I always feel like that’s a crazy question because it’s impossible to extricate my personal life from my work and my only hobby is raising my kids! But I’m so invested in everything about my kids. I parent in quite an unconventional way and you’ll see that in the series – I potty train them very early, I practice attachment parenting and co-sleeping, I carry my babies everywhere and I insist on meeting their needs immediately. Not every family is doing that and maybe it’s not sustainable, but it’s the way I do it. Sometimes television companies ask me what I’d like to explore in a potential show – and raising my children is really the only thing I care about. So, when Ben at Expectation and UKTV asked if I would like to do a whole series about parenting outside the box I was in right away. I just can’t think of anything more interesting for me personally, and I’m curious about how other people are raising their children.
Q: You share a lot of your family life in the series – how did you feel about letting the cameras into your home?
A: It was actually fine – in the end I think there is even more access than I previously envisaged. I’m very candid on social media and on my podcast, and I like it when people tell me secrets and let me into their lives. My language of love is full disclosure. I want to see what the Beckhams are doing and what the Kardashians’ kitchen looks like, that’s the kind of stuff that I’m drawn to, so I’m very happy to share my life too. Ultimately those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing, so I welcomed the crew in. I’m not wearing make-up for 90% of the series, so it’s a new me that the audience will be seeing, but it’s the real me. Panel shows are fun but that’s a performative version of who I really am, I’m in drag when I do those!
Q: You’ve mentioned that your son, Fred, was a bit more cautious about sharing his space with a TV crew?
A: It’s true, he didn’t like the camera crews at all to begin with – he was always on the backfoot, worrying that someone might try to babysit him at some point! But we thought it was time to broaden his horizons, and we respected Fred’s boundaries, so if he had a meltdown, we’d turn the cameras off, and the production did a really good job of working around him. Fred is just the Robbie Williams of our family – he’s always in his pants, he’s kind of a diva and he won’t come out of his dressing room, but we really love Fred. We’re playful about him, but he’s so funny. In the end he made friends with the crew, and he still asks about one camera guy, Seb, and wonders when he’s coming round.
Q: You meet lots of families raising their children in different ways – did any them challenge the way you think about bringing up your own kids?
A: I think the biggest challenge for me is actually making changes in the home when I get inspired by an idea. So, for example, I talk to my friend Luisa Zissman on the series, who was on The Apprentice and now has a hit podcast and a huge business. She’s very busy, but she has zero nanny guilt – she’s covered by nannies seven days a week. She prioritises her career and her self-care, she goes to the gym and then she is also present for her family but by looking after herself first. In the moment as we were chatting, I thought, “Yes, I need to do that with my career”, but then by the time I got home I just couldn’t seem to execute the changes that I wanted to make. It's challenging for me because while attachment parenting is really important to me, I’m the one in the family who works, so I do need to make time for that.
My children are getting older, I would like to get them into their own beds, and I would like to share a bed with my husband again – currently I co-sleep with our daughter, Fenna while my husband, Bobby co-sleeps with our son Fred. I do understand that I have to make my marriage a priority, just like I make my children’s wellbeing a priority, and so I have been challenged a little bit by Luisa and the idea of not just pouring absolutely everything into these two small children. My older daughter, Violet is growing up so fast, and I’ll turn around and have no husband if I don’t spend time with him as well, so that has been the biggest eye-opener of the series for me. Luisa didn’t just make me think about my marriage, but also about making time for my career.
I don’t even know how many listeners my podcast has because I don’t have time to check, and I wonder if I am taking a lot of these wonderful blessings in my life for granted by over-prioritising my kids. I love my job and I feel very lucky to have the opportunity to do it because there might be a day when people don’t want to come and see me on tour. So why am I not on tour now? All those ideas are swirling around in my head since doing the series, and my children will be fine if I go on tour again. Now that Fenna is one, I need to let go a bit. If you are the best that you can be then perhaps everyone gets a little bit more from you.
Q: In episode two, you meet a family who reject traditional schooling in favour of ‘unschooling’ – how did you respond to that?
A: It’s tricky with schooling, because in this country I feel that people just do what’s done, they don’t question it, more so than in Canada and America. State schooling was designed during the Industrial Revolution to educate kids in batches, based on date of production, but does that really make sense for the weird and wonderful future our kids have now? It seems to me that in many ways traditional school is just about childcare and institutionalising your kids so you can go to work, it’s a flawed system for sure.
So I admire people who are looking at alternatives. I don’t know that I would personally have the energy to be walking through the forest with my kids all day, but I loved that the family we feature is just leading with what’s going to make their children feel the most comforted and calm, and their girls were very happy and articulate. It works for them, and didn’t seem that controversial in practice, I just don’t think many parents have the energy that mum has – I don’t, and I just don’t want to tend to an allotment. I do think some schooling is good, Fred is going to nursery two mornings a week now, and although he resisted it to start with he absolutely loves it now.
Q: In episode four you discuss the pressure you feel raising Fred, and how that experience is different to bringing up your two daughters. You also seek advice on the best way to raise a boy. Why did you feel this was an important topic to explore?
A: These days it’s very provocative to even discuss gender, but it can be jarring to see how Fred behaves so differently to how my daughter did when she was two – is that just his personality? Or is that because he’s a boy? And how do I navigate that in a way that will make him feel strong, healthy and good about himself as he grows up? I think my feminism has often been misunderstood as me saying I hate men and I don’t want them around, but that’s not the case, I just think it's important to try to raise the best boy that I can. I hadn’t really considered men as part of my world for a lot of my life. I have a dad, but I was very close with just sisters and raised mostly by my mum while my dad was at work because it was a very traditional household. I had aunties and grandmas around me, and then I had a daughter, and I didn’t have a husband, nor did I want one, and I had lots of female friends.
I hadn’t considered that you do have to understand what masculinity means to raise a boy in this society, because toxic masculinity doesn’t just hurt women, it really hurts boys and men too – just look at the stats about male suicide and mental health. I owe the world a wonderful man and I know that every man just used to be a little boy like Fred, I wish they could all feel good about themselves and feel supported, nurtured and loved. Right now, I’m stuck in a purgatory of playing with race cars and dinosaurs all the time and it’s just not my vibe, but I’m trying to get into it. I’ve given Fred a wonderful father – Bobby is very masculine and has the kind of testosterone that motivated him to play American football, but he’s also a stay-at-home dad, which we don’t see a lot. He’s a really good example of how you can be non-toxic, soft, understanding dad.
Q: Many families rely on grandparents for help with childcare, and in episode two you experiment with inviting your mum to help. How did that go?
A: Yes, we flew my mum over from Canada because I know a lot of families not only rely on grandparent care, but they are also gifting the children the opportunity to be close to extended family, and that’s a wonderful thing. It was a little bit strained for us, not because there’s anything wrong with my mum, she is very unique, strong and opinionated and she’s really funny, she has her own podcast. I love and admire her, but for some reason I find it difficult to have her in my space. When we filmed that episode I realised that I never learned how to be an adult around my mum because I moved out when I was 18 for university and I never went back.
So, any time my mum is around I turn into Violet – I act like a teenager and I’m a bit stroppy. My mum’s wonderful, I’m the problem, but I think you can only really have one matriarch in the house. It was an adjustment for the babies at first because they can usually only see my family on a screen, which makes everyone so sad. If she lived around the corner it would be very different, but after a few hours she made tremendous headway with them, they loved my mum and they were sad to see her go.
Q: You raised your older daughter Violet as a single parent, and now you’re co-parenting with your husband Bobby. Does that change your approach to parenting in any way?
A: I have amazing support from Bobby and I really love him, but truthfully if he weren’t around and I were a single mum I’d be fine. I did consider having more children via a sperm donor before I met him, because I was 35, but then Bobby came into my life and we did it the traditional way. It’s amazing to have someone looking after the kids who loves them – who isn’t just paid to love them like a nanny – and it’s great for my kids to have his perspective. I don’t think I’m always right about everything, so it’s good to compromise with another parent, but being a single mum was also great. There’s a lot of shame associated with being a single mum and there really shouldn’t be, because you can count on yourself and it's really nice to know who is doing what – you don’t have to compromise or ask for anyone else’s opinion, and you can have support from friends and family members.
Q: Lots of mums and dads follow you on social media and are excited to see this series. How do you feel about becoming a parenting influencer?
A: I’m so candid about everything in my life and parenting just happens to be the season that I am in right now, so I share everything about that online and in the podcast. I always think it’s good to share the highs and lows because I like to feel connected to my friends and my comedy audience, that’s why I talked about my miscarriages and pregnancies and everything else – it’s how I want people to be with me, so that’s how I am. I might have become an influencer in that space only because people are scared to talk about what they’re doing – they don’t want to be seen breastfeeding with a glass of wine because they might get criticised, and I do get criticised. Parenting is contentious and people love to poke holes in what you’re doing. When I post something about parenting every single frame will be dissected, but I’m just impervious to criticism so I’m happy to post things. I think lots more people would share the realities of parenting if they could be more ambivalent to the criticism like I am.
Q: Throughout the series, you and Bobby openly discuss having another baby – is this still a big debate in your house?
A: We switch positions on this every week. The other day one of our dogs, Megan, got sick and very nearly died. She’s OK, but she hadn’t been behaving normally for a day and a half and then I came home from work at midnight and had to call a pet ambulance. We sat down as a family and we wondered, if we didn’t have small kids, would we have noticed earlier? It’s wonderful on paper to have this big happy family with lots of kids, but at what point is someone missing out? That point will be different for every family. Maybe if we were younger and we had spaced the kids out it might be different, but we’re 40 and if we’re going to have another kid we need to do it now.
Is that really sustainable with the mum trying to navigate a comedy career and touring? We have a nanny but I’ll come back home from wherever I am on tour – so I’ll drive home from a gig in Leeds just to do the night feeds, then do soft play in the morning and drive back to Leeds for a show the next night. We do want another child, we love the kids so much and we see it as an investment for the future, because they will all have each other as they grow up. We’re not being careful so I just trust the universe and we’ll see what happens – our daughter Fenna was a surprise to Bobby, but not to me.
Picture: UKTV
